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Speaker 1: When does the debt matter? My answer is it has been mattering. It's not the moment a bond

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Speaker 1: auction failed or something crazy because that's not the point here. The point is that when

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Speaker 1: you have these really structural fiscal deficits, there are recipients on some sides of

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Speaker 1: them and then there are others that are not on recipients but they're kind of paying the

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Speaker 1: cost. For example, higher rates and a new family looking to buy their first home, they're

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Speaker 1: kind of indirectly paying the cost or some of the costs for these deficits. That's where

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Speaker 1: you get, for example, record high stock prices and record low consumer sentiment.